Gear & Technology, Podcast

Dirk Friel – co-founder of TrainingPeaks | EP#434

 May 30, 2024

By  Bernardo Gonçalves

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE HERE:

Dirk Friel - That Triathlon Show

Dirk Friel, co-founder of TrainingPeaks, joins us to discuss the past, present and future of the platform.

In this episode you'll learn about:

  • The history of TrainingPeaks
  • Upcoming features and innovations on the platform
  • TrainingPeaks as a platform for expert instruction
  • Common complaints and criticism towards TrainingPeaks
  • The future of AI in training and coaching
  • Listener questions

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Shownotes

Dirk background

03:04 -

  • I live in Boulder, Colorado, which is a fantastic spot for endurance sports. I grew up here and have always loved cycling. I dabbled in triathlon when I was very young in the 1980s, but I stuck with cycling because I loved it. 
  • After high school, I got a one-way ticket to Belgium at 19, chasing the dream. I spent five years there, three as an amateur and then turned pro. I was a professional cyclist for 12 years.
  • My father, Joe Friel, wrote many influential books like "The Triathlete's Training Bible," "The Cyclist's Training Bible,and "Fast After 50.
  • Endurance sports are in our family DNA, and I learned a lot from him and his coaching practice. 
  • I started coaching with my father in 1997 while still competing, and retired from professional cycling in 2001. This coaching experience eventually led to the creation of TrainingPeaks.
  • I have a wife and daughter; my daughter is currently studying in London. When I retired from professional cycling, I focused on my family and didn't train much for a few years. 
  • Growing up, I loved skiing, but my cycling career kept me from it due to the year-round training schedule. Living in Colorado, skiing is a big part of our culture, so I wanted to get back into it. I discovered skimo (ski mountaineering) and began racing. 
  • I've been involved in the skimo scene for about 12 or 13 years now. We have a local mountain just three minutes up the canyon from Boulder where I train.
  • Skimo combines the endurance of uphill running with the thrill of downhill skiing, much like downhill mountain biking. 
  • love the team events as well, which add a new dimension of strategy and camaraderie. I race skimo for about six months of the year, and the other six months I race bikes, focusing on mountain and gravel racing. 
  • Gravel racing has picked up lately, though I've always enjoyed riding on dirt roads around here. Exploring the mountains on both bikes and skis keeps me going year-round.
  • Many top European racers use TrainingPeaks and have coaches. Coaching often starts at the pinnacle, with elite athletes at the highest level, and then trickles down. 
  • We're seeing growth in skimo coaches, and there are even companies in the United States that exclusively coach top runners and skimo athletes. It's a growing area within endurance sports.

Genesis of TrainingPeaks

07:45 -

  • I never set out to create a software company. There was no business plan, no private equity, and no venture capital—still isn’t to this day. We've been entirely bootstrapped. It all began in the late 90s when I started coaching with my father as part of the family business. Back then, we relied on fax machines and email attachments, as there were no apps for data management.
  • The process was incredibly cumbersome. Every Sunday night, pieces of paper with athletes' training logs would come through the fax machine. We were already a week behind, assuming we even received the logs.
  • Then, we’d fax back the next week's training program or send it via email attachments. As more athletes started using heart rate monitors, predominantly Polars, I received around 15 emails a day, each with a . HRM file attached. I had to open the Polar software, import the data, and analyze it.
  • Things got even more complicated when athletes began using PowerTaps and SRM power meters.
  • Now, I am dealing with CSV and SRM files, among others. I ended up juggling six different file types across seven different desktop platforms. Managing all this data was becoming impossible.
  • With the dot-com era on the rise in the late 90s, I envisioned creating a web-based data management and planning system. Initially, this was just for our coaching needs to deliver better service to our athletes. I pitched the idea to my dad, who agreed it was a great idea, but neither of us was a developer.
  • Fortunately, my best friend and the best man at my wedding was a web developer. Despite having a daytime job, he agreed to help. 
  • We stayed up late at night, working on the project outside of our regular jobs. There was no business plan or financial backing—it grew organically. And that's how it all started.
  • In 2000, after developing the platform in 1999, we recognized Boulder and Northern Colorado as a hub for the emerging coaching career path. There weren't many coaches, but we knew all of them personally.
  • We approached our friends who were coaches, asking them to try the platform and provide feedback. They saw its benefits, which made us realize there was an opportunity to expand.
  • We soon had a different revenue stream within our coaching business, adding a software component. By the end of 2000, we decided to separate the software and coaching businesses, creating two distinct entities. However, we had no external funding and operated on a bootstrap model.
  • While still coaching, it took about three years until we could go full-time with TrainingPeaks. Our philosophy was to reinvest 80% of every dollar earned back into the business, keeping only 20% for ourselves. I still have a picture of our first distribution checks, which were the 20% leftover.
  • Eventually, enough revenue flowed in that we took the risk and committed fully. By around 2002-2003, Gear left his day job, and we went all-in on TrainingPeaks.

TrainingPeaks milestones

13:10 -

  • Coaching as a for-profit business is less than 25 years old, making it a relatively young profession. Back then, most endurance coaches were employed by universities, teams, or national governing bodies, and very few did it full-time while charging their athletes. 
  • This has dramatically changed, and now there are hundreds of thousands of coaches building businesses, showcasing amazing growth in the industry.
  • Device adoption has also been pivotal. Initially, when we worked with our first Tour de France cycling teams, they resisted downloading their data.
  • Despite having SRMs, which were status symbols in 2005, riders didn't know what to do with them. We had to convince these professionals to save and upload their data to our system, introducing them to the concept of the Internet for data sharing. There was resistance because being accountable for their data was a new concept.
  • Another major change has been the mobile revolution. Back then, no one used their cell phones to check their peak performances as they do today. 
  • Now, with just a hit of the stop button on a Wahoo, Garmin, or Polar device, data is seamlessly uploaded to multiple websites within seconds. This flawless integration represents a significant industry trend and milestone.

Competition

15:58 -

  • When we started TrainingPeaks, we were competing with the incumbent, PC Coach.
  • If you had a Polar software device, you might remember PC Coach and its coach interface. They went out of business around 2004. For a while, there was a bit of a void until around 2005, when new competitors began to emerge. 
  • This competition is a positive sign—any worthwhile industry will have competition, which indicates growth and opportunity.
  • Since 2005, competition has been a constant presence, but it hasn’t been our main focus. Our approach has always been to prioritize our customers' needs overreacting to competitors. Listening to our customers drives our innovation much more than trying to outdo the competition.
  • Staying focused on our path is crucial. While we do need to keep up with industry trends and acknowledge competitors' new features, our priority isn’t to be first but to stay true to our mission and manage our development internally.

TrainingPeaks for coaches and athletes

19:07 -

  • We focus on expert instruction first, emphasizing deliberate practice. Our approach involves setting goals, seeking expert guidance, engaging in focused practice, and receiving immediate feedback.
  • This methodology shapes our software development, catering differently to coaches and athletes.
  • For coaches, a significant part of their day is spent planning. We aim to make this process more efficient, whether they're coaching a few individuals or hundreds.
  • Our tools help them plan and analyze workouts seamlessly. For example, coaches can enable post-workout notifications, so they get instant updates when an athlete finishes a session. 
  • This allows them to review and provide quick feedback, even if they're busy, like sitting in a dentist's office. They can see an overview of the workout and leave immediate comments, enhancing the coaching experience.
  • Much of our development work focuses on coaches because they're running a business. Many features designed to make their lives easier are invisible to athletes. This focus has been our mission since the company's inception—to help coaches build successful businesses and deliver higher-quality services to their athletes.
  • On the athlete side, accountability and communication are key. Athletes benefit from features like post-workout comments from their coach, notifications about upcoming workouts, and the ability to update their availability.
  • For instance, they can inform their coach about any schedule changes or vacations and specify the types of workouts they can do during that time. This ensures that both the coach and athlete are always in sync, fostering better training outcomes.
  • Most of the coach's time is spent on the web app, while athletes primarily use the mobile app. To manage resources effectively, we focus on developing the mobile app to enhance the athlete's experience. 
  • This includes making it easy for athletes to input comments or daily metrics, like sleep quality. Coaches, on the other hand, find the mobile app more challenging for planning and analysis, though it has its advantages in some areas.
  • Therefore, we dedicate more development time to improving the web app to better serve coaches' needs.

Demographics in terms of different sports

24:20 -

  • It's interesting to see how things have evolved. When we started, triathletes were our main focus. 
  • Back in the mid-2000s, triathletes were very much on the cutting edge because there was no longstanding tradition; the first triathlon was in 2000. Triathletes were ten times more likely than cyclists to hire a coach. So early on, our client base was very heavy on triathlon, probably around 70% for the first eight years.
  • Now, it's great to see the concept of coaching spreading across many more sports. Athletes are recognizing the value of expert instruction and coaching. 
  • Currently, we're more evenly spread across cycling, triathlon, and running, with each making up about a quarter of our clients. The remaining 25% comes from other sports, which is our fastest-growing segment.
  • It's amazing to see the variety of sports that are now using TrainingPeaks. For instance, four of the America's Cup yacht teams are using our platform. They used to operate the sails manually, but now they pedal within the yachts and train like cyclists. 
  • We also have big sailing teams, rowing teams, and even mountaineers training for Mount Everest turning to TrainingPeaks and coaches to get better prepared for their big objectives. 
  • It's exciting to see these sports, which aren’t new themselves, discovering the benefits of scientific, evidence-based training.
  • Regarding geographical distribution, we're not just US-centric. I’d say we might even have more non-North Americans than North Americans, or it might be about 50-50.
  • Our user base is very global, and we've seen significant growth in South America and Spanish-speaking nations recently. So, we're truly international and not focused solely on the US.

Implementations of new features or updates

28:25 -

  • Well, it's interesting to see how much we've developed for coaches lately. We just sent out an email yesterday about our new strength training capabilities coming to TrainingPeaks. 
  • We've been working hard on this, and after surveying our users, we found that over 90% of coaches prescribe strength training and more than 70% of athletes have it on their calendars. So, look forward to our beta strength training solutions launching in June.
  • Another big focus for us has been nutrition. We work with top cycling teams where nutrition is crucial, and they've been leveraging various apps to improve. 
  • These developments are primarily driven by feedback from our coaches, who asked for these features. TrainingPeaks aims to be holistic, considering not just workouts, but also nutrition and sleep. We're also very agnostic and compatible with many devices and training methodologies.
  • A lot of innovation happens on the coaching side, and unfortunately, athletes might not always see it, especially if they're not working with a coach. One area athletes don’t see much innovation in is the business side. 
  • We've now integrated with CRM (Customer Relationship Management tools) for larger groups, allowing coaches to better track their marketing funnels, manage client sales, and offer services directly from their websites. All these improvements eventually enhance the athlete's experience as well.
  • I think it's often not the best idea to be an early adopter of new technology. Early adopters tend to invest in things that might not end up being useful. 
  • For example, companies like Super Sapiens, which made blood glucose monitors, integrated with our API to enhance their app and metrics. However, they eventually went out of business. If we had invested heavily in themthose resources would have been wasted.
  • We need new devices to gain some traction before we allocate significant resources to them. Usually, these devices will start working with us via API, pulling data from us, and we'll collaborate behind the scenes to evaluate their effectiveness. 
  • Our WKO software acts as a sandbox for new data metrics, allowing early adopters to experiment with and analyze new devices and metrics that aren't yet integrated into TrainingPeaks.
  • Super Sapiens is a prime example of a device that initially seemed promising but failed to revolutionize endurance performance as expected. 
  • We need to explore new science, metrics, and wearables, as the field is always evolving. Despite my reservations, believe we need to improve our ability to adopt new metrics and devices. Innovation is exciting, and experimenting with new tools can be fun, but we must be cautious and validate these tools before fully integrating them.
  • Another industry trend is the use of APIs, which allows us to work with numerous partners. 
  • We typically bring in summary data from new metrics to provide coaches with a useful overview. However, manufacturers need to offer a robust solution out of the box. Their software should allow for deep data analysis, much more so than what we offer in TrainingPeaks. 
  • Coaches often need to use the manufacturer's app to dive deeper into specific data sets, which complements the summary data we provide.

Issues with WKO

37:55 -

  • We went through a period of growing pains this winter. We experienced slow loading times, especially on the calendar, primarily affecting larger coaching businesses outside the United States.
  • This issue became our top priority, and we had staff on call 24/7 to address it. Like any athlete facing challenges, it was a learning moment for us. We emerged faster, better, and stronger. We identified the weak link, openly apologized, and found a solution to improve our performance.
  • We take full ownership of the issue, communicate openly with our customer base, and stay on top of it with scheduled downtimes to prevent future problems.
  • Scheduled downtimes, though inconvenient, are necessary for improvements and should be appreciated.
  • Regarding WKO, it’s a desktop application, not web-based, so its performance largely depends on the machine you’re using and the amount of data you have. 
  • I manage 150 athletes and a decade's worth of data, which can cause significant delays when switching machines. However, it's not our primary focus right now.

Training Stress Score

40:31 -

  • It started as an exciting trend, and it’s still fascinating to observe trends over the last six to twelve months. However, at some point, athletes became misinformed, thinking that chasing Chronic Training Load (CTL) was the ultimate goal.
  • We never advised increasing CTL as high as possible. That’s where the value of a coach comes in, much like with training hours. Just because you can train for 15, 20, or even 28 hours a week doesn’t mean you should push for a 40-hour week—it simply doesn’t make sense.
  • Similarly, chasing CTL isn’t advisable. To perform and peak, you might need to lose some CTL. It’s crucial to focus on trends over time and track those. If anything, athletes should hone in on Acute Training Load (ATL) or their fatigue levels since ATL rises much faster than CTL as training progresses.
  • Many athletes lack the information needed to understand this, so it’s vital to build their confidence and knowledge. 
  • Just as a 30-hour training week could lead to burnout, aiming for a CTL of 150 is like training for the Tour de France or a pro-level Ironman. 
  • For most athletes, aiming for around 85 CTL is more realistic. We know that going beyond that or dipping below a Training Stress Balance (TSB) of -35, often leads to illness or injury.
  • The key is individualization. Many athletes compare themselves to others, like with Heart Rate Variability (HRV), feeling bad if theirs is lower than their buddy's
  • But that comparison is irrelevant. It's about understanding their unique sweet spot and goals. I acknowledge your concerns about athletes placing too much faith in certain metrics without proper context. 
  • It's all about helping them understand their individual needs and ensuring they aren’t simply chasing numbers.
  • I might mention that the downside of simplifying things is that it can lead to misunderstandings. For example, CTL is often associated with fitness, but that's not entirely accurate
  • CTL measures workload, which does contribute to building fitness, but only to a certain degree before you encounter diminishing returns. 
  • It's not just about having a higher CTL equating to higher fitness.
  • To help athletes understand these concepts better, we might express CTL as fitness, but it's more accurately described as a measure of chronic training load. CTL combines duration and intensity, making it a useful tool for reviewing progress and setting future targets.
  • As you collect more data, particularly into the second year, these numbers become much more insightful. 
  • You can observe trends, see where you performed well, identify periods of sickness or injury, and relate these to the performance management chart. This allows you to set more informed goals moving forward.
  • The value of a coach lies significantly in this educational aspect, ensuring that athletes understand these concepts and can use them effectively to improve their training and performance.

Future of TrainingPeaks

46:02 -

  • We've been putting significant resources into expanding our API capabilities. Many devices require access to different aspects of our dataset that aren't currently exposed within the API. By offering more solutions through API integration, we can better support these needs. 
  • We also filter our API partners carefully through a lengthy review process. This not only ensures quality but also helps us anticipate future needs and integrate them into our development process. 
  • I'm excited about leveraging our API more with partners, continuing the trend of being open and agnostic. Unlike early decisions by Polar and Suunto to keep closed systems, Garmin has led the way by showing the benefits of an open approach.
  • We're also focusing on expanding business solutions for coaches, enabling them to run their operations more efficiently. This initiative isn't about fitness directly, but it helps coaches focus more on their athletes by reducing administrative burdens. 
  • This, in turn, benefits the athletes, aligning with our goal of supporting them to achieve their objectives. Less time spent on admin means more time for coaching, making it a win-win situation.
  • Improving communication between coaches and athletes is another area with significant potential. We aim to make these interactions more robust, flexible, and dynamic. 
  • We're just beginning to explore nutrition integrations, recently becoming compatible with platforms like Texas, FoodCoach, and Fuelin. World Tour cycling teams leverage these tools, highlighting the growing importance of specialized roles in sports teams. 
  • I appreciate the trend of integrating multiple experts around an athlete, where the head coach oversees everything but isn't afraid to bring in specialists when needed. 
  • This collaborative approach, involving experts like registered dietitians or strength coaches, ensures athletes receive comprehensive support. These experts often meet without the athlete to strategize, reflecting a coordinated effort to optimize performance.
  • We've also introduced a library of a thousand strength videos, covering mobility and injury prevention, with coaches able to upload their videos. This allows athletes to access prescribed workouts via mobile apps, enhancing their training experience. 
  • The themes we're focusing on include nutrition, strength, mobility, and injury prevention, with our first iteration launching in June.
  • Regarding API expansion, we're continually enhancing our communication tools. Currently, post-workout comments are a standard feature, but we're looking to develop more continuous communication channels. For example, when I review an athlete's file, I can highlight specific segments and annotate them, though the athlete isn't always notified
  • Enhancing this feature would improve feedback efficiency. Additionally, we aim to streamline communications around various metrics like HRV, making the entire process more intuitive and effective.

Listener questions

AI in TrainingPeaks

53:50 -

  • As I mentioned earlier, we start with the pros and elites and learn from the best, with the knowledge trickling down from there. Currently, no Ironman champion, Olympic champion, or Tour de France team is using AI to dictate their daily training. 
  • That might change in the future, but for now, human expert instruction is the top method for training.
  • However, I believe AI can make human coaches smarter and faster in decision-making and data analysis. We're investing in AI to benefit coaches, which, in turn, benefits athletes. 
  • Although elite teams and coaches aren't demanding AI yet, this will likely change. We don't adopt new technologies until they are proven, but we're preparing our datasets and improving our data analysis to help coaches make better decisions.
  • Unfortunately, the market is racing to the bottom with many AI apps promising the world for $14 a month. 
  • Yet, the best athletes don't use these apps, which doesn't make sense. For beginners, consistency and getting out the door are most important, and AI apps can help with that by providing basic feedback. 
  • But if the athlete is being asked to pose questions, that's a red flag because they often don't know what to ask and can go down the wrong path based on misinformation.
  • If I had two cloned athletes, one trained solely by AI and the other by an experienced human coach, I'd bet on the athlete with the human coach every time. 
  • We're committed to helping athletes reach their true potential, and right now, that requires human coaching. Nevertheless, we are investing in and learning from AI to eventually integrate it into TrainingPeaks to aid coaches
  • So, while we're not releasing new AI-driven products yet, we're focused on leveraging AI to enhance coaching.
  • AI is such a buzzword right now, especially for companies seeking venture capital. It's almost like you need AI in your business plan. But I think you have an advantage here being bootstrapped and not reliant on venture capital. You can choose the path that you think is best for the athlete.
  • A lot of the buzz around AI is driven by venture capital demands to grow quickly and onboard as many athletes as possible. 
  • That’s not the business we’re in, so it's nice not to have those pressures. However, AI is here to stay, and I believe in its potential. We just need to approach it carefully and learn along the way. 
  • Trust is crucial, and I've tried several AI apps, but none of them have earned my trust after a week—they just got things wrong.
  • In the context of triathlon, it’s not life or death. Sure, you could spend $14 a month on an AI app to tell you what to do tomorrow and potentially get faster, but it's not critical. 
  • Compare this to self-driving cars—would you get in one today, hit a button, and trust it entirely? No, because it's not yet at the level where it’s safe for something as critical as driving. 
  • Similarly, if deciding what to do in a triathlon was life or death, you wouldn’t trust AI today.
  • I see immense potential for AI to positively impact coaching practices, particularly in streamlining data analysis. As a coach, I envision being able to request specific workout data from my athletes, such as compiling all threshold intervals from their biking workouts over the past three months. 
  • This could be seamlessly integrated into my TrainingPeaks interface, saving me valuable time and providing insights into their progress.
  • For example, imagine having an AI assistant within TrainingPeaks that can swiftly compile and present data on various metrics, as the efficiency factor for steady endurance runs below a certain temperature threshold.
  • This level of automation could revolutionize how coaches analyze athlete performance and training trends, enabling more informed decision-making and tailored coaching strategies.
  • While some functionality exists in platforms like WKO, it often requires manual input and complex expressions.

Tools for filtering data

1:01:40 -

  • Ensuring effective communication between coaches is paramount.
  • Without it, we risk inefficiencies and potentially harmful outcomes. Investing in improving this aspect of our process is crucial for achieving better results.

Plans for more complete syncing with devices (RPE)

1:02:30 -

  • We've explored the possibility of integrating it, but it appears to be a limitation on Garmin's end. Nevertheless, it's something we're eager to pursue, and we'll continue working with Garmin to overcome this hurdle.

Integrating Best Bike Split functionalities in TP

1:02:58 -

  • Best Bike Split offers a convenient feature where you can create a race plan and export it as a .fit file, which can then be imported into TrainingPeaks. This integration allows for seamless interaction between the two platforms. 
  • Best Bike Split is currently the top choice for planning race strategy. However, once the race plan is created, TrainingPeaks may not be necessary for syncing with devices. 
  • I'm interested in exploring how we can further incorporate Best Bike Split into our workflow.
  • One potential enhancement could be the integration of Best Bike Split's estimated CDA analysis directly into TrainingPeaks. This feature would allow users to perform the same analysis they would typically do in Best Bike Split within the TrainingPeaks platform. 
  • By adding an aerodynamics tab alongside the Analyze tab in a workout, users could input data such as tyre width and weight to generate a simple CDA estimation.
  • While I wouldn't want to replace Best Bike Split entirely, leveraging an API between the two platforms could offer a solution. 
  • This API could facilitate the transfer of ride files from TrainingPeaks to Best Bike Split for CDA analysis, leveraging the expertise of Best Bike Split in this area. This collaboration would allow each platform to focus on its strengths without the need for internal investment by TrainingPeaks.
  • Best Bike Split initially operated within the TrainingPeaks ecosystem, but later became independent again. 
  • Despite this change, we maintain a partnership and consider them a preferred partner.

Open up access to the API for reviewing and filtering process

1:05:36 -

  • It's interesting because even though the page says we're not accepting submissions, we've still been receiving them.
  • So clearly, people are still trying to submit their projects. We do receive requests, and we'll update the page to reflect that we are indeed accepting submissions. However, it's important to note that the review process is quite thorough. 
  • It's not just a matter of submitting and automatically getting accepted; it's far from that. Submissions need to align with our ecosystem, typically involving new devices and apps rather than just projects done for fun in basements. 
  • There needs to be a real business use case behind each submission for it to be considered seriously.

Olympic picks for the men's and women's triathlon

1:06:34 -

  • I'm inclined to favour Americans in my selections. Taylor Knibb's recent qualification for the Olympic road race, time trial, and possibly the road race is impressive. 
  • I'm not certain about the requirement for competing in both the time trial and road race, but I believe winning the time trial automatically qualifies you for the road race in the US. With only two spots available, scheduling becomes a factor. Knibb's versatility across multiple events makes her a standout choice. 
  • Additionally, Flora Duffy's past success and engaging personality make her a compelling option. 
  • Morgan Pearson's recent victory in Yokohama showcases his potential, while Alex Yee's past performances add to his appeal. 
  • Personally knowing and admiring athletes like Kristian Blummenfelt and Alex Yee on TrainingPeaks adds a layer of appreciation for their journey, even if recent results don't show top speed. 
  • The prospect of both Flora and Blummenfelt making it to the podium is intriguing. Despite Blummenfelt's recent form, his tenacity and potential for a speed boost in the run make him a contender for the podium.

LINKS AND RESOURCES:


Bernardo Gonçalves

Bernardo is a Portuguese elite cyclist and co-founder of SpeedEdge Performance, a company focused on optimising cycling and triathlon performance. He writes the shownotes for That Triathlon Show, and also produces social media content for each new episode.

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